So technically this is Part 1 of our interview but . . . when Paul and I recorded this interview in Mid-November we had too much fun and ended up with 3 parts, but I realized later that the 3rd part had some more time sensitive info for our "local" listeners, so I decided to air it first. So if you listen to this episode and wonder why I left the end of the episode "hanging" that's why. So you'll have to go back in time and listen to last week's episode in order to hear the stuff that came after this, which was aired before this one. This is one of those temporal anomalies that Star Trek characters are always getting in trouble over. Actually it's an insidious plot to get you to listen to more of my podcasts. Heh Heh Heh (diabolical laugh)
Years ago I met Paul Wolter when we started a tradition of doing a radio interview around Christmas time in order to talk about an annual event at the Sauk County Historical Society. Each year the Van Orden Mansion, a local landmark, is decorated with all sorts of Christmas trees in a beautiful tribute to the holiday season. So this year, given my new podcast format, we decided it would be a good time to talk even more about the History of Sauk County with regards to Christmas traditions and so much more. We also again talked about the old Railroad Depot in Baraboo, which is being restored to it's original splendor by the Historical society, as well as the importance of getting history right. We also talked a lot about the importance of history and how we determine that something or some event has historical significance. We set the record straight on all of that.
Paul Wolter is a native of Reedsburg in Sauk County and now lives in Baraboo with his wife Anne. He holds an undergraduate degree in Fine Art from the UW- Madison. Paul is the Executive Director of the Sauk County Historical Society but has been with the organization since 1996 serving as president from 2000 until 2015. His hobbies are genealogy, cycling and travel.
On a side note, if you blow up this week's show icon, it's a scene from the Van Orden Mansion Christmas event. Beautiful place that REALLY gets one into the Christmas Spirit!
Announcer: 0:04
Welcome to frame of reference informed intelligent conversations about the issues and challenges facing everyone in today's world, in depth interviews with salt counties, leaders and professionals to help you expand in and form your frame of reference, brought to you by the max FM digital network. Now, here's your host Rauel LaBreche.
Rauel LaBreche:
0:26
Well, welcome to another edition of frame of reference your 907 Max FM's digital network. I, you know, I enjoy it when I have an opportunity to interview someone that's been on the show before and who I've actually gotten kind of to know through our radio endeavors over time. But my guest today, Paul Volter, who is the Executive Director of the sock County Historical Center, is society. Sorry, it's a society
Paul Volter:
0:52
we have both Yes. The center at the society. So
Rauel LaBreche:
0:57
Paul has been on this show yet. He was on Morning sipping Firelands a number of times. And that's kind of where we found that we had some common bond stew in our history, which was, was fun. But thanks, Paul, for joining me again, always a pleasure roll as we get into the Christmas season. I always think of you because that was our first endeavors together where it's you would come and talk about the Christmas house things going on right at the Vander van orden van orden I always want to see Vanderbilt.
Paul Volter:
1:25
Well, not quite to that scale. But yeah,
Rauel LaBreche:
1:29
I just it's in my brain. I got the vendor bill. So Reedsburg Baraboo. Yeah, no van orden. So which is what we can talk about that a little bit too, but I'm imagining things are starting to pick up a little differently with COVID hopefully is going to settle down and stay settled down. Anyways, but welcome again and I'm gonna just get right to it. We want to do our favorite things and and get people to understand more about who is polled. Who's the real vaulter. Right. So let's start with something really tough. Okay, what's your favorite bug?
Paul Volter:
2:07
Oh, bug. Well, I would have to say dragonfly, I just think they're beautiful. And, you know, there's certain bugs that just have a bad rap there. You know, sort of people love spiders, somebody loves spiders, but I don't dragon flies, just, you know, they're in you know, even somewhat ancient, you know, you'll go to France and the, you know, symbol of some fiefdom or Chateau is a dragon fly. It's never gonna be the spider. So yeah, I think they're kind of a neat.
Rauel LaBreche:
2:36
There's a my wife and daughter have a big thing about dragonflies. And oftentimes my daughter will like gift my wife something that's got a dragon play on it. And that all goes back to I don't know if you remember the show Gilmore Girls heard and there was the in that Lorelei opens up is the dragon fly and it becomes, you know, kind of an ongoing thing with them too. But weren't they? Are they the ones that were called stitcher bugs or something like that, too? I know. I remember there being something about at least it was an insect that looked like the dragonfly and my mom or somebody told me that there stitcher bugs and if they get too close here, they'll stitch up your skin and I'm like, Wow, I'm sorry. Like terrified. Like I don't want anything stitching up my skin. Yeah, so might have been one of those old wives tale
Paul Volter:
3:22
you know it's funny because flies who wants to fly but then at Dragon Dragon Fly cool that they're making roaches and art?
Rauel LaBreche:
3:31
Yeah, much bigger than a regular fly. I'm a dragon fly. Yeah, so yeah, that was another thing flies we're like get the house fly. It's otter door the flies will get in. Right? We have a lot of phobias from my childhood. So But how about do you have a favorite quote? Boy boy something that you go to or think of fairly regularly that is inspiring or kind of helps I have things in my life that I think of that help keep me on track. And you know,
Paul Volter:
4:10
it's funny, I don't want nothing on the top of my head. Okay, I suppose from reading so much historical stuff, you get a lot stored in there.
Rauel LaBreche:
4:19
Well, let's take that maybe I'll think of something as a question. Do you have a favorite, a favorite historical personality?
Paul Volter:
4:28
Well, when I was younger, Thomas Jefferson was intriguing. I think for his love of architecture and, and stuff like that. Of course, the older you get, you know, you you realize his foibles and stuff and Sure, sure, the slavery and things like that, but but still a remarkable person but locally, you know, I people kid me on Mona Larson's always accused me of making up holidays, which I do, I start, and there's always some Centennial next year, there's always a centennial around the corner for something so But I started William Canfield Dave started 20 years ago to honor our you know, local Astoria first first local historian here in Salt County. Okay. So he's he's, you know, lived to be in his 90s and was just endlessly interested when he was in his 80s he started cultivating silkworms. He thought we should all be growing silkworms to make silk and sugars even mulberry trees in in bearable that are still left from his endeavors to when he was defeated them. Yes. So
Rauel LaBreche:
5:34
interesting. So I can feel that's a is there like a beverage or a beer or something that's Canfield? Is that a fairly popular or
Paul Volter:
5:43
could be? Not a totally, you know, uncommon name, but yeah, but make sure I'm sure that's that's the only one I know.
Rauel LaBreche:
5:52
That makes me think of the Hatfields Yeah. Yeah, so how much do you have a favorite movie?
Paul Volter:
6:00
I love I love A Christmas Story. Okay, the whole like, I have the full size leg lamp. Okay. Which is coming out? A little boy that yes, the red flyer red Ryder BB gun. Yeah. It was kind of like a lot of the stories my dad told kind of growing up, roughly in that era. I kind of just just see as from that movie. Love Princess Bride. By the way I'm walking Symphony Orchestra is going to be playing it playing the soundtrack live to Princess Bride on January 1. And second, really. So they're showing the movie and showing the movie while they play the soundtrack live so it might be fun to go. So yeah,
Rauel LaBreche:
6:41
that sounds like that's been one of the favorite movies in my family too. And we quote line this time.
Paul Volter:
6:48
I mean, there's not one. There's dozens of lines from it.
Rauel LaBreche:
6:52
Yeah, we have. We have a refrigerator magnet with cash. Why can Indigo? Yeah, I'm the frigerator says I don't think that word means what do you think it means? Which is if anyone's out there listening that hasn't watched a Princess Bride. It is just a fantastically funny movie. It's I forget Chris, who's the one guy that was in multiple movies like spinal tap and This Is Spinal Tap in there. Forget that actors named Chris Grissom are. Oh, goodness. Anyways, he he plays. He plays the night that's going out to see him. He's got the sixth finger or whatever it is. Right. So very, very odd. Isn't that like Rob?
Paul Volter:
7:41
Rob Reiner? Yeah, right.
Rauel LaBreche:
7:43
What's his first movie or his first? Yeah, so there's so
Paul Volter:
7:47
many. And there's so many, you know, known people in it? Sure. You know, sure. Under the giant, of course, known people and I can't think of their names. But
Rauel LaBreche:
7:57
yeah, there's well Mandy Patinkin who didn't go right. And I didn't realize but about that same time is when he was on Broadway. Yeah. Doing Sunday in the Park with George. So and you know, so you don't get to hear it. And that, but he had to mute beautiful voice to
Paul Volter:
8:16
from the hospital show. Oh, wait, that's that guy.
Rauel LaBreche:
8:20
Isn't that weird to how you go back and see things is like, Oh, wow, I never realized he was there. You know, some of the big stars to have these like little bit roles and movies. You're like, Yeah, we had no idea. Right? So how about a favorite? I think I asked you this the first time, but do you have a favorite book?
Paul Volter:
8:38
Well, the Bible Bible. Beyond that, you know, unfortunately, I do not do a lot of just reading, you know, novels and things like that, I suppose, because I've read so much historical
Rauel LaBreche:
8:52
documents. So is there a document that you've run across over time that really has stood out as a special document?
Paul Volter:
9:00
Well, you know, every once in a while we'll come across you know, firsthand accounts. We we came across a typed manuscript of a Civil War soldiers diary, just recently tried to find it was a Saccone guy from the middle of summer in the middle of Castle prairie area, and, and was in the in the war for three or four years and faithfully kept a diary. So this turned out to be about 100 pages of typing, if you can imagine that single spaced typing. So unfortunately, we don't we seem to have gotten just this copy and this is sometime in the 1980s. So we don't know where the original journal is, or ended up or journals, quite frankly. But yeah, just to have the type version is amazing. So to hear, you know, it's one thing to study history, but then to read these firsthand accounts, sure, you know, makes it much more relatable. personal one? Sure. Yeah.
Rauel LaBreche:
10:02
So let's moving along the topic of history, this might be an impossible one for you to answer. Right up, there were quote, so just think of a quote, you know, some FDR quote anything. Right, right. So anything will fall away. But how about a? Is there a is historical? I don't want to say event again, because that's not exactly what I'm thinking of. But is, I guess, is there a historical, something that happened in history that you became aware of, in your studies, and through your association with history? That was much more important than you realized? It was? You know, because it seems to me that there are these events that we don't recognize at the time they happen, how forming they are, how, you know, indicative they are of all kinds of things just going to happen afterwards, right? Is there something like that, that you've seen?
Paul Volter:
10:58
Well, and I always, I love local history, because it's local, you know, you can go to the spot, you live in the house, you, you know, the people, you're, you're studying or researching new the same place as we do now be it they looked a lot different, you know, so in that vein, you know, I like putting, you know, looking at local history, and its context to, you know, national and international history. So the Badger plant, you know, you grew up coming over that bluff, seen that vast city, especially at night, all the lights on, you're like, what's that? And then you were told it was the powder plant, you know, and then you and you get a little more knowledge. So it was World War Two, it started blah, blah, blah, but then to realize what an enormous part it played in national and of course, international affairs. Sure is, and then you grew up, and then I learned three of my four grandparents worked there. My dad worked there at various times. So you know, then you have this connection? Sure. Sure. Yeah. And similarly, like, we'll talk about the depot, but the railroad coming through the heart of sock County just just changed everything.
Rauel LaBreche:
12:06
Are there buildings that that we don't even recognize right now, let's say historical landmarks, because I know it takes quite a bit, you've gone through that process of having something become a historical landmark significant place, or their age, do you think I mean, is that more often than not, not done for places that should be considered significant? And yeah,
Paul Volter:
12:26
I mean, you know, the National Register of Historic Places is, it's, it's rare that something gets sought out. I mean, it's all kind of, like, I'd love to have my house on or my building on, sometimes districts will get formed. But yes, there's, there's way more that could and, or should be on, then is on, you know, so I can't think of anything right off the top of my head. But, but yeah, there's plenty of that would, would be eligible.
Rauel LaBreche:
12:54
It seems I just, I guess, as I'm getting older, you know, in my 60s now, and I always, not always, fairly regularly have the thought as I'm walking by a place or a house or one time thing. I wonder what the stories of that yes are wonder what that you know, what were the people like that lived there? What were the jobs like, you know,
Paul Volter:
13:11
people that, you know, have an older home or something a little what, what makes an historic home? And I always say, Well, every house has a history. Right? You know, they're all historic homes. I mean, it could be as ugly as box. And, you
Rauel LaBreche:
13:24
know, August your lips was a building in town here that they had to tear down to build the, the Walgreens. And yeah, there were people that tried to last minute kind of save it and weren't successful. Yeah.
Paul Volter:
13:35
But at the same time, that everything that is old, should be saved. But we but once it's gone, it's gone. And you asked about a building that's maybe unrecognized and you know, brings me back to the barebow depot. You know, when I when I people here that we've we've taken on the depot, they're like, What depot are you talking about? And part of it is it's so large it doesn't read like the typical one story cute little town depot, you know, but but an enormously important building for that just bear with it. But sock County, sure. And really, really the state there's only it's being listed on the National and State registers soon, and there's only like four of these depot slash Division Headquarters buildings left in the state. Wow. And there was only you know, a number of them to begin with, because there was only so many divisions or any any railroad. Sure. So,
Rauel LaBreche:
14:31
so to have one in your area really is Yeah, yeah, we think of the total number of cities and whatnot
Paul Volter:
14:36
is bigger than Madison's Yeah. You know, deep any of Madison's depots, just because
Rauel LaBreche:
14:41
it was, was there a railroad house to like one of those
Paul Volter:
14:44
28 stalls, started out as eight and then grew to 28 stalls. So practically, fully 360 was at least three quarters of a circle, you know, so Yeah, another reason that the depot is so important, it's really the last remaining Building related to the Chicago Northwestern operation unbearable and really one of the few, the Reedsburg depot is still there, but not too many other buildings related to the railroad. Okay.
Rauel LaBreche:
15:12
Do you have a favorite museum?
Paul Volter:
15:16
Well, I got to the met a few years ago in New York, and of course, you know, only a few hours. So that's, that's an amazing place to get back to local more locally, the pain in the pain Art Museum in Oshkosh is wonderful. Of course, I'd love any of them that are in an historic house or mansion, you know, versus just a museum. Sure, but the pain always has wonderful programming. And
Rauel LaBreche:
15:46
so both of those are art museums. Right? Well,
Paul Volter:
15:49
yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, the map, you know, you can go see 5000 year old Egyptian artifacts and things as well. But you know, the decorative arts, and I have an art degree. So I suppose you have some background in architecture, too, don't you? Well, just in getting my art degree, it took as much art architectural history as I could. And then of course, I was a contractor and doing a lot of historic preservation work for 20 years, which
Rauel LaBreche:
16:14
is was kind of the circuitous route, or the meandering route you took to your current job, right?
Paul Volter:
16:19
Yeah, they were, I mean, I started volunteering at the Historical Society and doing that, but of course, I fell in love with the Sauk County Historical Society at first because of our our built the Vanguard mansion, beautifully preserved 1904 building, so Okay, yeah.
Rauel LaBreche:
16:37
Okay, last question. And then we'll break it. So I've asked you this question before, but I'm hoping maybe you'll have another story, but you have a favorite memory of favorite historical event in your life, or you know, favorite just something that happens that when it happens today, or when you think of it today just takes you back to a you know, a time that you I don't know that we necessarily get sad about it, but just like why? Yeah, that's, that was an important thing.
Paul Volter:
17:04
Yeah. Oh, boy, there's probably a lot but I love Christmas time. You know, just happy memories around that. I remember being like, probably four and begging my mother to drive into Lake Delton. So I could see the garland over the one intersection that then exit the one stoplight that then existed in Lake Delton. If you can wrap your head around that, you know, just to process the garlands and some orange balls, you know, and a bell in the middle, maybe. You know, yeah. So. So that's that those
Rauel LaBreche:
17:36
little wonderful things that you know, when we get older, it's like I was nothing but when we're kids, it just seems like you know, magic. Yeah. Yeah. The Tinsley lights and all that jazz.
Paul Volter:
17:46
That's fun to create the be involved in creating that kind of stuff. For sure. You know, kids today. Sure. 21st Christmas of the van orden mansion.
Rauel LaBreche:
17:57
Okay. Folks, my guest today is Paul Volter, the executive director of the Suffolk County Historical Society. We're gonna take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors. And we come back here we'll get into the meat of things here on history. So don't go anywhere. We'll be right back on frame of reference.
Commercial:
18:19
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Rauel LaBreche:
18:52
and we're back here at frame of reference. So WR PQ 99.7 Max FM's digital network. They almost said morning set Macfarlanes I think being with a guest that was on that show with me. I haven't done that for months and months and all of a sudden I want to do that old show to trigger a trigger. Yeah, something like that. So you can't say trigger anymore because there's too much gun violence. To say you're an impetus there's an influence I did something anywho i My guest today is Paul Volter the executive director of the Sauk County Historical Society and center I've found that whether it's actually can say both things and it's yeah,
Paul Volter:
19:32
we run the County History Center at the County Historical Society. Okay.
Rauel LaBreche:
19:36
And that History Center is actually in bear boo as well. Just a different building.
Paul Volter:
19:41
Yeah, another historic building, the old Island woollen mill office building. So another another important kind of forgotten piece of Saccone history both the woollen mill in Baraboo and the one in Reedsburg produced probably millions of yards of wool fabrics from 18 Six Three to Well, the one reads were granted till the 1960s. So nearly 100 years worth of wool fabric production in sock County. And Aren't there a
Rauel LaBreche:
20:09
whole bunch of wool blankets for like World War One,
Paul Volter:
20:12
they mean yeah, 10s 10s of 1000s of wool, Army blankets, they didn't make a lot of finished goods, you know, they mostly made fabrics for later on for even Ford Packard and Studebaker cars and wool fabrics from bearable, but the army blankets you whack off a Hunka fabric. There you go. So amazingly, we have one at the at the History Center, the old office building, in a case was tattered, looks like it went to the Spanish American War and came back. So pretty amazing. Wow.
Rauel LaBreche:
20:43
So history, you're an expert in history. And we're gonna say that whether or not they're bigger experts or whatnot, there's always somebody that knows more than we do. Right? Exactly. So, but it's being someone's been surrounded with history as intimately and intensely as you have. Is there something about history that you think most people miss? Because I hear people, especially the kids will talk about a history class, oh, my God, oh, boy, why do I care about these dates? And even older people that just don't seem to appreciate the importance of being aware of what happened before? Yeah. What What's your take on that? How do you try to bring somebody into the fold? If
Paul Volter:
21:30
you Yeah, well, you know, there will always be levels of interest, you know, you may be into airplanes, I could, you know, I like to fly in airplanes, but I don't care how it works, or that, you know, this or that. So, there is that, but, you know, there's always the cliches of, you know, if we don't remember, history will be doomed to repeat it, which is, which has some truth to that, you know, in certain situations, but but it really, you know, and one of our tag lines, it's on our every newsletter is let the past enrich your present, you know, we just talked about memories, you know, which, which is history, it's your personal history of what you experienced, and what made you happy or sad, and that can just, just, you know, a certain smell or food or whatever, can bring back those emotions. So, sure, I think, you know, and when people start to, you know, disdain, history, it's that old, why do I have to memorize all these dates and, and these names and stuff? And, you know, it's kind of the same in other other subjects, too. Why did I learn why did I learn calculus? I have no idea, you know, brain exercise, I guess. But, but I think history can really well, whether it's as mundane as, you know, when the state puts a road in. And we always get notices of improvements that do we know of any, you know, historical things along this route, Indian mounds or historic buildings that might be impacted? You know, we have to speak up. I think I think history in some levels is just so important, especially local history for what makes an area unique, you know, we're learning that people can, more and more work just about anywhere, you know, they can be in any state any cities. So what you know, what makes a place unique is not the big box. It's places like Macfarlanes, that have a store like this, and you know, the certain I can go to different different cities in, in Sauk County and tell there was a builder that liked to build that kind of house because it's all over this town, right downtown Sauk city here as these kind of unique commercial buildings are two storey and yet there's this third kind of story window. It's like, it's not really clear story window, but it's like, what is that? Is that an attic? window or whatever, you know, and they don't find them anywhere else. So I think local history can, you know, be it's part of that placemaking that everybody's, you know, seeking talking about. And so other things too, like having a great sock trail and, you know, great, great events and things like that, but they're often historically related. You go on the great sock trail, and there's 666 or more signs talking about the bridge that was here or the three thinkers hall or the indigenous people in architects
Rauel LaBreche:
24:30
Yeah, certain kinds of block. Building and
Paul Volter:
24:34
again, you're gonna have some people that never will never will never care. Right, you know, but there's plenty of people that do as long as it's, you know, interesting and relatable. I just happen to come from a great storytelling dad, who always was telling stories about growing up. And a mom that just loved detail facts, you know, put those together and I have to know the truth. I have a good story about local history. And that's I do love to tell a true story. You know, I kind of tend to shy away from legend and lore, because they're just that. Sure.
Rauel LaBreche:
25:10
Sure. Does it seem, is there an inter lapping place? I mean, it strikes me that legend and lore are important. I always wonder what's the original story?
Paul Volter:
25:20
Exactly what happened. At some point, there's this apocryphal story, you know, the the Bank of Baraboo, which was now what's now bear with state bank, you know, was instrumental in helping the Ringling Brothers Circus get started. And, you know, given loaning them money when they were stuck in the mud in the late 1880s. And really, you know, kind of going out on a limb a little bit on this, this, this enterprise, and it really, definitely helped helps the circus survive and then grow. So vice versa, there's a legend that the bank was was facing a panic or a run at some point. And the Ringling Brothers heard about it. And one of the Ringling Brothers or several mentioned wrote up on a horse on Monday morning, as people were standing in line waiting for the bank to open to pull out all their savings. And he quelled that, you know, that run and the bank was saved, you know, so So I've, you know, I've heard that story for years. And it was down in Florida once at Charles wranglings daughter's place down there and then doing some research down there and came across Charles railings granddaughters account of that story. And I thought, you know, I'm gonna investigate this one. Here's, here's a family member talking about it, it's a lot closer than some somebody else. So you know, so when you start looking at what, what, what panics were there around this time period, and then you find out there were some panics. And unfortunately, for us, barebow had three newspapers at the time, so don't quote me, because I get a lot of dates in my head. Jerk, but I think it was the 8093 panic. And one of the banks and variable did close permanently. And there was, you know, it was attempts times, and the Bank of Baraboo, literally put out 10s of 1000s of dollars of currency and coin on their counters so that people could see, you know, we're okay, it's okay. And what they would also do at the time was, if you came in to take out your savings, they would give it to you in solid silver currency, which made it very heavy, so fine. And there was a story related in one of the papers of a farmer that came in and wanted his life savings pulled it out the 67 pounds of solid silver coin, and he took it around for a while and then thought the better of that and went to put it back in the bank. And they said, Oh, we've got all the silver we need. Thank you very much. So it made a little, you know, little object lesson out of him, you know, and but it wasn't finding you know, anything about the rings being involved. And of course, it was wasn't one of the Ringling Brothers riding on horseback in the middle of the night. You know, and but fortunately had three papers at the time and one of them, I think, I found the smoking gun, which was large sacks of silver continued to be received from Ringling Brothers Circus. So so I'm sure a call was made. Hey, guys, we need a little help. You know, if we get a run, we're going to start to spend seeing this in, in silver currency. Sure, for found out that Charles Ringling happened to be in town at the time, most likely for the birth of his daughter, which was imminent and happened a few days later. So I'm sure he was involved. And again, that story that I found in Florida was from his granddaughters roster, so. So that's what I like is, you know, my dad loved fishing. I like fishing at all my fishing is, you know, reading through old newspaper is trying to find that one nugget of truth. So that's, that's where I think that legend started. Sure. Yeah.
Rauel LaBreche:
29:01
You know, it's interesting, too, because it makes me think of what's the saying to the, you know, to the victors go the spoils. But it's also that, that the victors in any war are the ones that write the history. Exactly. Yeah. And so, have you found examples of that, where, you know, the person that won the battle or whatever, had the most influence, they got to write things, the way things happened, but they really didn't happen quite that way.
Paul Volter:
29:26
Right? Or, it's, there's more more to it than that. And, of course, we don't have like major, you know, conflicts here in in Sauk. County, but I will say that, you know, in the written history that indigenous peoples, you know, are not represented well, or Respectfully, oftentimes. So that's, that's been something we've been trying to remedy and, you know, tell a fuller picture. You know, there's unfortunate terms that are used, which obviously We don't you know, we don't use any more. In any rate, but but in general, you know, just telling more of that story. And sure, sure, we just had our third indigenous peoples day here in Sauk. County, in October. So that's been a great growing event. Actually, the next one will be here next October in Sauk. City. Okay, folks, the last three have focused on the whole chunk. And this one, of course, they will be there. But we will focus on the SOC tribe, and of course, the namesake of the county and the city. And so that'll be a great way to get that out as well.
Rauel LaBreche:
30:39
Do you think that there's anything inherent in us as people that makes us want to rewrite history to fit our own motives agenda, whatever? Well, it seems like
Paul Volter:
30:54
write or rewrite, or just write you know, because oftentimes, it's it's just, it's just us writing, you know, of course, we're familiar with our own story and our own culture and whatnot. So that's the easiest point of reference to write from. But I think as we look at other people, groups and experiences, you know, and it's then then you can start to piece things together, doing doing the Reedsburg. Indigenous peoples day, this year, we focused on an event that happened at the Reedsburg. depot in 1873, when during the last years of forest removal of the whole chunk, people from Wisconsin, which had been happening for 34 years, the some family members of Chief bluing had been detained at the depot, and we're headed I mean, within hours from being on a train headed for Nebraska, and, you know, a group of, of local citizens heard about it, and they knew bluing and his family and did not want that to happen. So they literally, physically interpose themselves between the federal troops and his family members. So they were spared. Now on the flip side, 28 other whole chunk were on that train and shipped off to Nebraska. But all that to say that, you know, I started to think about my own history, and my own ancestors lived just south of Reedsburg. Within about, well, maybe less than a mile of Chief BlueWings village. So I don't I wish I knew how much contact they would have had. But, but chief BlueWings family was with him himself, where he was beloved and revered in the community. And that, and his family members to the point that, you know, in 1873, two to 300, Reedsburg area residents gathered at the depot, and we're happy and mad about, you know, the fact that they would be deported. So sure, you know,
Rauel LaBreche:
32:55
what it seems like, that's the sort of story, too, that you wish would get more modern press as an example of, hey, you know, people do try to do the right thing. Yeah. But you know, what is it that, you know, throws us off the right thing? And let's just get
Paul Volter:
33:12
Yeah, and it has to be nuanced? Because we did we, we always want to celebrate that event. But like I said, there were still 28 people out of 900 whole chunk that had been deported in 1873 74. Yeah, you know, and this, and again, that was 3034 years, if you grew, if you were a whole chunk child born in 1840, you knew nothing, but the, you know, that your family was always, you know, you know, waiting for the next, you know, purchase or whatever. Yeah, so,
Rauel LaBreche:
33:44
which is, yeah, and those those stories are, oftentimes people would rather forget, they just
Paul Volter:
33:51
don't know about them, or, you know, it's just not not out there. And there's, you know, there's a lot of history, and there's a lot of a lot that can be told, you know, but so we're happy to, you know, put a new interpretive panel at the Reedsburg depot that tells the larger story of, because the story of that, that that the word deportation is known, certainly in Reedsburg. But I don't think the broader context of this was at the end of 34 years of, you know, forced removals. And it did catch the attention of the US Secretary of the Interior who started to question like, wait a minute, what are we doing and, and it wasn't, and that was the end of those next year of 74 was the end of the forest removals. And then, a few years later, the Homestead Act was extended to Native Americans so they could start, you know, owning some property. But yeah,
Rauel LaBreche:
34:43
I actually, years ago when we were celebrating Wisconsin sesquicentennial. We did a play here in Soc that I wrote with another gentleman called a river dream, and it dealt with the Chief Black Hawk and it was one of the characters in that talked about the, the Native American indigenous peoples and some of their story and the Battle of Wisconsin heights. And so you get some of that flavor of history. And his great, great, maybe great grandson actually came to attend the show and had come from Nebraska or so, you know, still to this day. A lot of those people that had been this had been their home for hundreds 1000s of years. And now they're, you know, in Oklahoma, right. But he was, I remember, probably one of the greatest honors of my life was him saying, he watched that. And he felt he said, I had done a great honor to him into his people. So like, that's, you know, I all I did was do a play, you know, and there's so much work to be done, you know, if we would look at history and realize that, holy cow, you know, there's so much damage and so much wounding that's been done over time that somebody has to take some responsibility for doing triage on it rains. Do you what, you know, looking at history and looking at the kinds of causes that you take on, are there particular challenges or issues that you kind of regularly come to that have to be overcome in order to accomplish like, the railroad depot? I mean, yeah, I would think that's just indicative of other challenges that people face, right. Sure.
Paul Volter:
36:15
You know, and resources, as always, you know, one of the, one of the first ones, we're, we're one of the oldest historical societies in the state. And I would say, in the last 20 years, we've had a tremendous amount of growth. Kind of just just operating a museum that was only open seasonally to being a year round organization that, you know, has paid staff and whatnot. But would there ever be enough money? Probably not, you know, but, you know, and we've had some great growth in membership, which has been very encouraging. So, okay, so if you
Rauel LaBreche:
36:57
had unlimited funding, what sorts of things would be on the top of the list? Do you think to do or that would be the best use of that capital? Right.
Paul Volter:
37:07
Oftentimes, we'll get you know, like, like the the mill in Laval is slated for demolition. One of the last I think, maybe the last remaining mill building on the Bear River, when there was six dams and maybe more in in Sauk. County alone, you know, so some things should be done about that. Well, yeah, something should but you know, there's only so much, you know, so you pick and choose when we took the depot on unbearable, you know, it's a tremendous commitment. I don't think we, you kind of sometimes ignorance is bliss, you don't really know exactly, you know, when we when we took on the history, the island woollen mill office building become the History Center, we had no idea how much it would take, you know, but it was worth it. It's wonderful. It absolutely changed our operations. 100% you know, to have a modern facility inside of an historic building. I love that twofer. You know, muscles designed by a sock county architect so that it's more icing on the cake? By Sure. Sure. Yeah. So
Rauel LaBreche:
38:09
do you find that you have to hard sell some of this stuff that
Paul Volter:
38:13
sometimes the depot, like the depot has been very everyone, most people I talked to were like, so glad something's been done with that depot, you know, because they know about it. So of course, when it comes down to raising millions of dollars for it, there'll be some gotta work for that. But but, you know, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing, you know, and it'll, it'll happen, but a lot of pieces fall into place already. So it's,
Rauel LaBreche:
38:39
is there a light that you think goes on in people's minds that makes them realize, no, this this is significant? I want to be a part of
Paul Volter:
38:47
it. Yeah, some of its some of its nostalgia, you know, a clo, it ceased operations in 63. So there's still plenty of people that remember, you know, taking a train out of their shell. And others just, you know, when they learn about it, and its its relevance to railroad history in Baraboo, and sock County, you know, then then the light bulb goes on. And then you have just railroad buffs and historians in general, we hope to get support from across the country for some depot they've never heard of yet. You know, just because it's it's so important. And there's a whole Chicago Northwestern Historical Society, we hope to, you know, tap. So where did the circus
Rauel LaBreche:
39:27
train operate out of there as well?
Paul Volter:
39:33
Not Not really. I mean, it passed it, you know. And of course, the the Ringling car shops are just just west along the tracks behind St. Vincent DePaul. Okay. in Baraboo is, somebody said the largest all wooden railroad building left in America. It's 500 feet long. And three has three tracks inside of It's packed full of artifacts related to circus world museum But yeah, another great building.
Rauel LaBreche:
40:02
It's interesting to me too, that I mean, part of perhaps what we deal with in America is that our our own history as a country is relatively small. Yeah, you know, because I remember being in Europe in high school and one of the guides that we had made a really strong impression on me, because he said, you know, here, an old building in Paris at the time is 567, you know, even 1000 years old, that's what we consider an array for you in America. 100 years is old, you know, and you don't think anything of tearing down a building that's 100 years old to make a room for a brand new one. Right. And I thought, you know, there is, there's a lot of truth to that, in terms of, you know, do we appreciate, you know, where would you find someone that would be interested in St. God, that's the last mill on the variable river that that should be preserved? I mean, don't you kind of have to ask the question, well, why? Why? Why does it have to be preserved? What does it matter? Yeah. How do you answer a question? So, yeah, I like to really throw the tough ones. I
Paul Volter:
41:10
said earlier, I mean, not every old building should or, or needs to be saved, but there are certain ones that it is the last of its kind, or it was the most significant or it had a relationship to an event or a person that was important. And so and again, there's there's more buildings that that that could be saved, but just won't be because of resources. But is there
Rauel LaBreche:
41:36
a criteria that you try to go through in order to determine is just worth spending the time and resources necessary? Well, kind of what point does it become important enough for design in person important enough?
Paul Volter:
41:48
I mean, there's some like, like, the depot that were just they were they were important, pretty much from the day they were built, you know, I mean, they had to pass into history first, but but are the Al Ringling theatre obviously no brainer, you know, hold nonprofit formed about saving that, you know, so. But with limited resources, you have to do have to pick and choose so you know, oftentimes you hope there's another local group like the Troy Harrisburg school, not that far from here in Sauk. City out out on Highway B.
Rauel LaBreche:
42:19
Yeah, actually, you know, run by that group, a
Paul Volter:
42:21
group formed to save that, you know, so that's often the case is local history has to be local, you know, it's a great thing that they're saving it but it's it is saved because of old past students that went there, or people that live in the area or whatever. But now it's probably the best preserved one room schoolhouse in Sauk. County in situ. So out of over 100, you know, so
Rauel LaBreche:
42:47
when the yard detour was going on, it was right on the road for our detour and they were open and people were coming in and
Paul Volter:
42:56
so it so it kind of rose to prominence because it was one of the last ones still intact, you know, hadn't been turned into a residence or just demolished or whatever, you know, sure. It could have been any one of the 100. But it happened to turn out to be that one because of the speakers and Morimoto ism and you know, others that saved it. Sure. So sure, sometimes it's luck. Sometimes it's, you know, that one has to be saved in Sure. Oh,
Rauel LaBreche:
43:20
sure. Are there. Have you have you? This is a tough question to ask you. I know. But have you ever been involved in projects where you had a real hard time thinking this was important enough to spend time on? I mean, are there?
Paul Volter:
43:35
Well, every every one Yeah. I mean, the History Center and now the depot to your like, Gulp. Like, this is gonna take a lot of effort, but I'm glad we did the History Center. It's it'll be a fraction of what the depot will take. But to walk in there and and have a have a wonderful building to use. Sure. It is a piece of history to preserve more history is great.
Rauel LaBreche:
44:02
Do you wonder though, I mean, I think of like Berlin Sprecher, who's out at the badger. I'm Army and
Paul Volter:
44:06
Berlin. Yeah, Bert, bro. Berlin Mueller. Yeah, brother Mueller.
Rauel LaBreche:
44:10
I'm sorry. Again, another day where I'm mixing up really Mueller in Berlin. And I am talking a couple of times about why that building is so important. And he spends tons of time just making sure that some of the archival materials are properly preserved. And I think, you know, when when Berlin's gone. Is that going to be gone? I mean, it's, you know, or he gives it to Wisconsin Historical Society, and hopefully they're able to well,
Paul Volter:
44:36
there's a whole you know, there's the whole badger history group, they're a nonprofit. So fortunately, they have a great board and just went through strategic planning. So they're cognizant of, you know, what's the what's the game plan here are the Churcher and there's even talk of you know, some a little more of an interpretive center there something to not only provide facilities for the rec area, but But talk about that. History even more.
Rauel LaBreche:
45:01
Okay. Well, I like the Harris Harrisburg school, right? Yeah. That one makes me mean that we actually had a group of people from that society here over the summer doing a broad Stan. Oh, yeah, trying to raise funds and whatnot. And, you know, looking at the average age of the people that were there helping, and they're getting up there, and thinking, Well, what happens when those folks are gone? I mean, thankfully, they had, they must had their grandkids helping to or something, because there were some teenagers there. And I'm like, Okay, I mean, I would like to think that maybe they care about one room schoolhouse too, but probably grandma said, I needed help. And they said, Sure,
Paul Volter:
45:34
right. Right. But but they've made that connection. And then when grandma's gone, you know, when they get they get their family settled and start having some disposable income, you know, then they make sure that Oh, that was a grandma's thing. You know, so let's make sure it's supported. And again, not not all, not everything is gonna, you know, I love I love to think about institutional history, you know, and it's this, this passing of a baton from, you know, you have a board member that's been on for decades, and then they know something and when they're gone, hopefully the newer members of the board remember something? It is it is fascinating to think about institutions that there's not one person that's carried it for 116 years. In our case, it's passing this baton and you know, yes, we're gonna save that building and he'll get to use it and go from there,
Rauel LaBreche:
46:25
sort of like the Olympic torch. Yeah, certainly. Yeah. Getting pasttime folks, my guest today is Paul Volter, the executive director of Suffolk County, Historical Society, we're taking a quick break and come back and talk some more history and soccer history in general. So don't go anywhere here. In southern accent found and remove reference.
Commercial:
46:49
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Rauel LaBreche:
47:19
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. That phrase is most often attributed to George Santayana, who was a professor of philosophy at Harvard University. However, in its original form, it actually read, those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. There's a subtle and yet profound difference between both of those aphorisms, and I think we would be best served to remember the original. After all, the word remember means to be able to bring to one's mind and awareness or to emphasize the importance of something that is asserted. Today in our speed of light information age, it's so easy to just keep repeating the same mistake over and over and over simply because we're moving so fast collectively, that there's little attention paid to stopping and remembering before we plunge ahead. I say this, mostly because people like Paul Walter, help us to take that time to pause and remember, whether it's Christmas traditions and Christmas tree decorations that bring us back to a simpler time, or the restoration of train depots that were once so integral to the fabric of our communities. Remembers so that we do not lose sight of the things that connect us. We remember so that our frame of reference continues to expand as we go through time and pass the baton of remembrance onto younger generations. I hope that this holiday season all of you gain more and more experiences and memories that help you to get beyond the mayhem of pandemic misinformation and into the sacred soundness and fullness of being with family, friends, and those we hold dear. Don't forget to tune in next week for a special Wisconsin Christmas jam here on frame of reference. Stay well
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