The "Boo" in Baraboo: Shelley Mordini & Gwen Herrewig

Show Transcript

Introduction  0:04  

Welcome to frame of reference informed intelligent conversations about the issues and challenges facing everyone in today's world, in depth interviews with salt counties, leaders and professionals to help you expand and inform your frame of reference, brought to you by the max FM digital network. Now, here's your host, Rauel LaBreche.

Rauel LaBreche  0:25  

Welcome to another edition of frame of reference. That's right, this show is called frame of reference if you were looking for something else too bad, because your frame of reference now, and actually, it's probably better that you found frame of reference than whatever you were looking for. Because we got a great show today we're in celebration of the Halloween time of year and I believe in Latino cultures, we talk about cinco, not Cinco de Mayo, what the done what, the night of the dead, right? So we've got I thought about that. And one wondered who I could get to talk about those kinds of things. And I thought of a woman that I had talked with a number of years ago when I was doing mornings at Macfarlanes. And we had a kind of an abbreviated discussion, I would say because it was one of those things where we just kind of got going and airtime meeting what it was we had to just cut the cut the thing so I thought well, it'd be nice to have a longer conversation. So of course, I'm talking about Shelley Moore Dini, or if you've listened to that show, you know that she was really fascinating to talk with. We had lots of really cool stories. But Shelley is here along with a car author of hers, Gwen Herwig, who has together with Shelley, they've written a book called haunted Baraboo. So tell me that's not appropriate for Halloween, right? Haunted bearable, which is part of a series of books called haunted America's every showing

Shelley Mordini  1:47  

it is it's correct. It's from the Arcadia press. They have a whole series about haunted America. And they asked us to write a book. So

Rauel LaBreche  1:56  

when people come after you and say write a book, what are you going to say?  

Shelley Mordini  1:59  

Oh, well,   I said, No.

Rauel LaBreche  2:02  

They twisted your arm.

Shelley Mordini  2:04  

And they asked me in August 2019. So those who don't know, I teach school,  

Rauel LaBreche  2:10  

right?  

Shelley Mordini  2:11  

So August is like crazy time.  

Rauel LaBreche  2:13  

Sure.  

Shelley Mordini  2:13  

You're trying to get school started. I have tours. And you want me to write a book, right? So really, you know, people need to thank Glenn because she's the only reason we have this book.

Rauel LaBreche  2:22  

So Gwen came to the rescue, right? That this was the what you were the hero of this story. Is that how this works out

Gwen Herewig  2:28  

it was actually the second time that she was contacted. In November, a couple months had gone by. And then he circled back around and asked again, if she would be interested in putting together a proposal for a book and I told her, we should do this.

Rauel LaBreche  2:45  

Okay. Well, Gwen Shelley, thank you. Thank you for being on the broadcast on the podcast for sharing with you. I am really excited because just in reading the book, though, I didn't get through the whole thing. I'm being completely out there honest. But it's one of those books, honestly, where I've had some experiences, or at least my family has had experience is with extra. We call them extra paranormal paranormal events. So I'm a believer, I had never had one myself. But I am definitely a believer that there are things that we don't understand that aren't quite quantifiable, and in the ways that we're used to quantifying them. But so my part of my problem was, as I read, I would get these sort of heebie geebie experiences of oh, man, I can see that happening. So So anyways, I'm excited about that part of the whole thing. But thank you. Thank you both for being here. Thank you for taking the time. I'm a little curious question. So how did you know in show we know each other ahead of time? How did that come about?

Gwen Herewig  3:42  

I moved to Baraboo in 2013, from Alaska, I grew up in Wisconsin, but I moved to Alaska for almost a decade, and moved back to bear boo and she was the first person I met at the swimming pool. And we've been working together ever since I've been giving historic and haunted downtown walks with caribou tours. And I also substitute teach. So I have I have been spending some time working with her and her crew at the school. Had

Rauel LaBreche  4:12  

you had experience with paranormal sorts of things beforehand in Alaska? Or was it just always kind of been you were interested in and thought, yeah, that'd be fun. Let's do this.

Gwen Herewig  4:21  

I thought it would be fun. Let's do this. I hit I did have experiences in Alaska, but I never, you know, I'm not a ghost hunter. And I don't, I'm in I haven't like pursued a job or anything like that. But really, I just I was staying home with my son at the time. And it was a perfect opportunity to get out and talk to adults for an hour in the evening. And then go back

Rauel LaBreche  4:48  

there and talk about that is right, you know, it's just I want to talk with adults.  Yeah, I completely feel your pain. So I worked all the time my kids were growing up and, My wife bless her soul, you know, was homeschooling and all those good things and yeah, so I, I felt that pain at least viscerally before. So well, let's, let's talk a little bit uh, my favorite part of the show honestly, which is my favorite things. And this is one of those deals where it's sort of Rorshachtian experience where you just blurt out the first thing that you think of no F bombs, please, this is a family friendly show. So, but, you know, it will just be kind of off the top of my head. Some of the things I ask a lot of people and other things are things that I just kind of go hmm, you know, why not? We'll ask this. So I'll start off easy and we'll get progressively more and more like,

Gwen Herewig  5:40  

scary. Yeah.

Rauel LaBreche  5:43  

I don't believe so, we'll save scary for later. Probably. Okay. So okay, let's start out with Shelly favorite color.  

Shelley Mordini  5:49  

Purple.  

Rauel LaBreche  5:50  

S he's wearing purple today to folks. So you can't see this. But yeah, I'm very various shades of purple too

Right. So Gwen favorite color?  

Shelley Mordini  5:55  

might as well go. Yeah. ALL the way.  

Gwen Herewig  5:55  

Pur ple ?  

Rauel LaBreche  5:55  

What two purple-lites right in the room?

Okay, well, I gotta tell you I personally look marvelous in purple. So I didn't wear any today, but I do. My wife, in fact, says you look really good in that purple shirt. So I'm like, thank you. I know. So Purple and orange. For some reason. I don't know what that's all about. But I guess  there's somewhat opposite ends of the color spectrum ring. So how about favorite bird? Gwen?  

Gwen Herewig  6:05  

Okay, imagine that.  

Robin?  

Rauel LaBreche  6:27  

 Robin. Okay, Wisconsin. There you go. Shelley,  

Shelley Mordini  6:30  

Eagle,

Rauel LaBreche  6:31  

Eagle. Big, big favorite in this area. Right?

Shelley Mordini  6:34  

It is and you know, there's even one in our little zoo here in Baraboo

Rauel LaBreche  6:38  

Really, I didn't know that.  

Shelley Mordini  6:39  

And he his name is Walter. Walter the eagle and he got hit by a car. Okay, so he you know he's been rehabilitated and other things and you know, and I don't think he's ever gonna fly. But we love watching him.

Rauel LaBreche  6:52  

Is Walter like, like a full bald eagle.

Shelley Mordini  6:55  

He's turning to be adult his head's turning white. So yeah, okay, now

Rauel LaBreche  7:00  

I you know, eagles are in this area. In particular, those of you listening wherever in the world. Eagles and soccer Eagles we've got, you know, it's a roosting area for eagles. So, you find a lot of Eagle lovers around here doing so how about favorite book, besides the one you guys have written? Okay, let's try to just take that one off the table and try to expand Okay,

Shelley Mordini  7:22  

To Kill a Mockingbird To Kill a Mockingbird.

Rauel LaBreche  7:24  

Really the original book or the Play?  

Shelley Mordini  7:25  

No the original book.  

Rauel LaBreche  7:26  

Okay. Excellent. Good choice.

Gwen Herewig  7:28  

The Catcher in the Rye

Rauel LaBreche  7:29  

Catcher in the Rye a really good American classic. Good deal. Yeah, I actually met. This sounds like I'm not bragging. This is just something happened. Gregory Peck was at the theater. I managed for a number of years. And he was asked he did kind of a conversational thing. And he said he felt the most important role he ever played was Atticus, in particular Mockingbird because he felt it had the most socyial in, you know, just cultural significance overall. So and then he had like copies of it that he signed for people that you don't want them and all that jazz. So, really fun. I was neat, because my mom was a huge Gregory fan. He was like her idol when she was young, you know, in the 30s and 40s. So when I was able to bring her to this event, she was like, oh, no, no, like a fan girl again. She's like, 80 some years old at that point. Right? So anyhoo Um, how about a favorite thing to do? When you just want to de stress?

Shelley Mordini  8:22  

I love to go kayaking on the Baraboo River.

Unknown Speaker  8:24  

Really kayaking. Okay, do you go with people or do

Shelley Mordini  8:28  

people okay, now that way when you know your boat fills up with water, you have a partner?

Rauel LaBreche  8:32  

Or something like that?  

Shelley Mordini  8:33  

Yeah, yeah.  

Rauel LaBreche  8:34  

I don't think I could do that. I'd be too much. Okay, here we go. Yeah, so I don't not coordinate. So congratulations on being coordinated to khaki or to go kayaking, khaki kayaking, right. Some days. So how about you Gwen?  

Gwen Herewig  8:50  

Running?  

Rauel LaBreche  8:50  

Running? Okay. Are you like a distance runner?

Gwen Herewig  8:53  

Not? No, no, I'm good with three miles.  

Rauel LaBreche  8:55  

Okay,  

Gwen Herewig  8:56  

but it's a good three miles.  

Rauel LaBreche  8:57  

Okay.  We've been talking with Dr. McAuliffe in the Sauk-Prairie area a lot about COVID. And he uses the analogy of Marathon because he's a marathon writer, runner. And it was interesting, because he when the whole thing started, we would talk about as things went along, what mile Are we at? In the marathon, the marathon and, you know, we got to the end of that first year last summer. And it was like all I think we're getting to the end of the marathon and then it all came apart and it's like, somebody changed the marathon on us. We're in that spectrum of  

Gwen Herewig  8:58  

We're doing an ultra marathon.  

Rauel LaBreche  9:19  

Yeah, well, I don't know if you know, I like marathons. There's one called the Barkley and it's just crazy in terms of what the guys have to do that run that race and but you know, we went from being the Boston Marathon to being the Barclay that's what's happened in this whole thing. So how about favorite animal?  

Shelley Mordini  9:47  

I love a cat.  

Rauel LaBreche  9:48  

Okay. Okay, any particular kinds of cat

Shelley Mordini  9:51  

Well, I love my orange tabby he's his name is Guido lovey Guido,

Rauel LaBreche  9:57  

we don't come here to scratch me please.

Shelley Mordini  9:59  

Guido Mordini

Rauel LaBreche  10:02  

really did that doesn't it? Yeah, we the Mordini the cat, you do not mess with Guido. He make you an offer you cannot refuse interesting cat people, dog people, right? So anyway, Gwen  

Gwen Herewig  10:17  

mine's also a cat,  

Rauel LaBreche  10:18  

A Cat. So we have two cat people, two purple people, we could call you the purple cat people

Shelley Mordini  10:24  

Absolutely

Rauel LaBreche  10:26  

All right. How about your favorite memory from childhood? And this is something I really liked this memory this this particular question because it it makes us usually think of something that made us smile or something we really enjoyed. Or as we get older, we realize that was really formative for me. There's something in your, your past, or your, I find, it's like things that I smell, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, that reminds me of my mom's bread or whatever. They say all the awful olfactory senses, like the strongest for memory. So anything there.

Shelley Mordini  10:59  

You know, one of my great memories is of my grandmother, my great grandmother had a raspberry patch. And it wasn't just a raspberry patch. It was like a 30 feet by 40 feet raspberry patch and just be going in there and eating the black or red raspberries. And oh, wow, yes,

Rauel LaBreche  11:19  

my wife really liked that we her mom and dad had raspberries outside the house that she grew up. And so all through the 60s, they just sold that house this past summer. And before we like let it transfer, we took resprays out some just so we could you know, all the kids that wanted one could have a bush from there. So we have to get ours planted soon. But you know, so I can relate to that. That's I'm not a big raspberry fan either. But you got to respect your spouse's love of berries don't get in the way of their raspberries.  

Shelley Mordini  11:52  

Absolutely

Rauel LaBreche  11:53  

So how about you Gwen?

Gwen Herewig  11:55  

The first thing that came to mind was jumping off the diving board when I was a kid with my friends.

Rauel LaBreche  12:00  

Okay. Like did you there was a particular pool you guys would go to

Gwen Herewig  12:04  

we would we all lived within a few blocks of the public pool. I grew up in Wonewoc

Rauel LaBreche  12:11  

Wonewac . Yeah, really? Okay. So nearby. So was that so every summer that was the thing. I really guess what

Gwen Herewig  12:20  

 ld we would jump off and do different things. Check nice cannonballs.

Rauel LaBreche  12:26  

What I can do now? didn't break your neck or anything or  

Gwen Herewig  12:30  

No,  

Rauel LaBreche  12:30  

I was good at the belly flop. I was always particularly talented with that one. So I think because you know, just let it go. Right? Don't Don't worry about form. Just go. So what about a favorite? Is there a favorite music that you like to listen to? There's anything there that you really find that you gravitate towards?

Shelley Mordini  12:51  

I love rock music any kind? Yeah. Favorite musical if you want that way. Aba you know?

Rauel LaBreche  12:58  

Yeah, is there? So is it like 70s 80s music  

Shelley Mordini  13:01  

70s 80s Yeah.  

Rauel LaBreche  13:02  

Okay. I just saw thing with Tommy Shaw, you know, from STYX. He's done this whole series of concerts with the I think it's the Cleveland youth orchestra or the contemporary youth orchestra in Cleveland. And it's really cool because they do these stick songs with this youth, you know, orchestra and choir off time. So it'll do things like oh gosh, what was the one Lorelei?  You know "Lorelei, let's live together". So in the have these symphonic or you know, composition. So if you liked the 70s and 80s music, look that up with Tommy Shaw with the CYO, because it'll give you a whole new understanding of 70s and  

Shelley Mordini  13:46  

I'll do that  

Rauel LaBreche  13:46  

so cool stuff. So how about you Gwen?  

Gwen Herewig  13:50  

Techno  

Rauel LaBreche  13:50  

techno? Really?

Gwen Herewig  13:52  

Yeah,  

Rauel LaBreche  13:52  

techno  

Gwen Herewig  13:53  

music for the body? Mind.

Rauel LaBreche  13:55  

Okay, so you just want to let it kind of take over and is it like it now I forget. Is there a difference between techno and EDM? Because EDM is kind of okay. We have a running joke at Hochunk, done some shows up there and now they'll have EDM oftentimes for New Year's Eve. And it's because it's so loud in that confined space. I was like, Oh my God, I don't know if I can do this anymore. And we're usually so tired we're not going to be doing anything like that. So it's but it I see what you mean. It does really kind of impact your body in a huge way.

Gwen Herewig  14:30  

But it depends on what my goal is with listening to music if I'm dancing I like techno if I'm just hanging out at home I'll pick bluegrass

Rauel LaBreche  14:38  

right? Okay. Yeah, yeah, bluegrass has got it that way. Was the Steve Martin used to say playing his band which I think if somebody is unemployed you should give them a banjo cuz then come home from work and say, did you find a job? No, no, but ding da da ding ding cuz it make you happier? Right? So cool. Um, anybody? How about a favorite thing to do and and this may be a little bit but if you're really stressed out is there a favorite thing or favorite food or something that you do that kind of helps you to center back and get, you know, really well.

Shelley Mordini  15:13  

I love to listen to podcasts when I'm stressed out. I imagine that  

Rauel LaBreche  15:18  

for you.

So really, you're finding that that  

Shelley Mordini  15:22  

I do and you know, and I have a sauna I got into so Oh, you know, I was diagnosed with stage four cancer. Oh, and  during the writing of this book. Okay. And Infrared Saunas are supposed to help. Okay, so I it's Bluetooth. So I put on a podcast, and I go in there, and I can listen to it. Fantastic.

Rauel LaBreche  15:41  

Yeah. A lot of people have found that I think through COVID, especially that, you know, they find kind of the genre that they like, and they tune in. And so hopefully, this will be the same sort of thing. If you haven't listened to frame of reference yet. You'll definitely listen to these episodes, I'm sure

absolutely. So how about you Gwen?

Gwen Herewig  16:00  

I like to meditate, right? To try to center myself

Rauel LaBreche  16:04  

any particular form of meditation?  

Gwen Herewig  16:06  

No,

I just, you know, I don't listen to music or anything like that. I just, I was taught to meditate by a Buddhist nun.  

Rauel LaBreche  16:19  

Okay.  

Gwen Herewig  16:19  

And I just go for silence or or visualized thinking,

Rauel LaBreche  16:25  

or do you do the like, Mantra thing to where you have a particular cadence of things or word soun ds like you try to  

Gwen Herewig  16:32  

Every once in a while? I usually it depends on on what's going on. And in what way I'm trying to center myself, but mostly, if I'm trying to do it, to get myself to relax before a podcast because I'm nervous  

Rauel LaBreche  16:52  

Why would you get nervouse before being on a podcast?

Gwen Herewig  16:59  

For example, I was actually taught by a shaman how to own the room. Okay. Um, so there's different exercises you can do to, to bring the energy back to yourself instead of being all frazzled?  

Rauel LaBreche  17:13  

Sure, we do a lot of that my theater training, we do a lot of that sort of thing. And just getting awdare of how your body and your breath and all those things contribute to your sense of wellness, really. And there. There's a lot to that. But people I think, need to be more mindful of just what's going on right now. Why am I in this frame of mind? And oftentimes, it's just, well, you're not breathing very well, you're not really focused very well, you're letting a lot of things just kind of overwhelm you. Which actually is a really good place for us to kind of segue into the topic of your book, right. Let's take a quick break, though. We'll just hear a word from our sponsors and come back and we'll really get into the meat of things. I'm talking with Shelley Mordini and Gwen Herwig that both authors of a brand new book that just came out in 2021. Right, I mean, we just got published and available on Amazon. If you're looking to get something fun to read, part of the Haunted America series. The book is called haunted Barab oo. And we are here in Baraboo, Wisconsin, finding out who put the boo in Baraboo. Right. So we'll take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsors. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere here. 99 Seven Max FM's digital network and frame of reference.  

Commercial  18:26  

COMMERCIAL BREAK

Rauel LaBreche  18:27  

And we're back here on frame of reference on 99. Seven Max FM's digital network my guests today are two co authors, Shelley Mordini and Gwen Herewig are here who have together, written, collaborated and did researched developed a whole series of stories in a book called haunted Baraboo. And seeing as we are near and I'm not sure if this will air right before Halloween, and depending on how long our conversation goes even the week after Halloween, but without you know, let's get some people that can talk about those things that we think about in Halloween, right? And not just like the goofy caricatures, scary things, but the truly unexplainable things, the stuff that kind of goes outside of our normal realm. So So you both put this book together, but you have a background in this kind of thing already. So that's part of why you came to the subject matter.  

Shelley Mordini  20:00  

Well and I actually started the tours 10 years ago,  

Rauel LaBreche  20:04  

okay,  

Shelley Mordini  20:04  

historic walking tours a bareboat.  

Rauel LaBreche  20:06  

Okay,  

Shelley Mordini  20:06  

I spent a whole summer giving historic walking tours. Nobody showed up. It's like the best tour I have. Nobody showed up. And the chamber came to me and said, Why don't you do ghost? And I'm like ghost? Are there any ghosts in Baraboo? And they're like, let's help you. And that started it were. Now I offer mainly haunted tours, I do one historic tour, I give it away for free, and people still don't come out for it. So

Rauel LaBreche  20:33  

I, you know, I think you and I talked about that the last time we interviewed and I would love to do a history tour, my wife would love to do a history tour. So we will somehow someway take that and I have to feed off right? You know, we're there are two there will be more okay. As a firm believer, but yeah, no history tours are cool. And on the way this is kind of a history tour, though.

Shelley Mordini  20:54  

It is really does have a lot of history written into it. You know, we spent a long time you take a story that's maybe a page long, and we'd spend maybe three, four days researching the history to get that sure to flush it out. Some of the stories, you know, definitely had a historical component to it. Others who are just like,

Rauel LaBreche  21:14  

yeah, yeah, one some of the ghosts that are talked about as well as some of the people that apparently are part of that history of when that ghost apparition began to appear are based in real life historical figures that are part of the bearable. Yes, right. Yes. Well, right. Yes. Okay. How about You Gwen? And how did you get sucked into this whole thing?

Gwen Herewig  21:38  

I have been working with Shelley, I think this is my seventh season working with Shelley doing doing the haunted and historic walks. Okay. And I can also say that the the historic walks are one of my favorites, too. It's a good it's a good walk. Sure. But the Hon are fun. It's as well in people. People like the fun. Yeah. When I, before I came back to bear, but I was doing a lot of writing. I was writing federal regulations for the fishery. Oh, boy, that sounds fun. Yeah, wow, this was way more fun than that was yeah,

Rauel LaBreche  22:15  

I can see where this would actually keep you awake at night. So maybe that's a good thing, though. Because if you're too nervous about a story that you're writing, right, you just go do some of the tax and regulations.

Gwen Herewig  22:26  

Yeah. So I had I had a background, I also have a degree in environmental education and interpretation. So I've given a lot of tours of all kinds of different subjects, from kids, to glaciers, to train tours. So generally, it was we made a really good team, because I had the writing background. And so when we were filling up the proposal to pitch our book to the to the history press, I had the writing background, and that was really solid. And she had the community connections. Sure, because she is so intertwined in the community in ways that I just couldn't ever dream of being. So it worked out really well. We had a great partnership. Well, yeah,

Rauel LaBreche  23:11  

I mean, I found that in the parts of the book that I was able to read to there's a really nice conversational colloquial quality to the the writing itself, it doesn't it's not arduous to read at all, or, you know, highly technical or whatnot, you put it into a framework that I guess I think being almost anecdotal, where it's the storytelling medium, which is, you captured that really well, because it does have that sense of just, this is a ghost story, you know, and I'm going to tell you all the things that happen in a ghost story, which, and it's not like you're purposely trying to be very scary. It's the you just talk about the events, and the events are very freaky, right? So

Gwen Herewig  23:51  

well, one of the most important things for me in collecting information, I wanted to talk to the people that this actually happened to I wanted first hand experiences, because ghost stories a lot like phishing stories get a little bit bigger and bigger, each person goes through. So that was our task was to come up with with people who actually had experiences and then try to get those people to talk to us. And and tell us about it. And we interviewed over 45 people for the book, and the book is, is recounting their stories.

Rauel LaBreche  24:29  

And I thought I remember maybe it was when Mike ganger and I were talking about things that he had noted that one of the things that was interesting and tended to validate verify the stories was that there were multiple people that had the same story to tell having been occupants of certain homes or whatnot. That's like, any contact with one another and yet the story details stayed the same. Right. And that

Shelley Mordini  24:52  

was my favorite part of the whole book is that we had interviewed this person, and he told us a story and he gave us the location of the house like the two crossroads. And then another lady came in and gave us a story, but she gave the actual address. And then we went, Oh my gosh, you know, he lived there in the 60s and 70s. And she lived there in the 80s. And it was, that was the intriguing part for me is like, wow, now, that's a validation that doubled up on the same address.

Rauel LaBreche  25:21  

So did you find that people were like wanting to tell? Like, were they eager to tell the stories? Or were they reluctant? Because, I mean, there used to be, I think more of a, I guess a stigma of you don't talk about those things that people will think you're crazy. Right? And you know, you're just making it up or unlike a fish story, which is like everybody's got a fish story, right? And especially fishermen like to outdo one another. I don't know of anyone wanting to outdo another person with their ghost story, you know, oh, no, I had a huge fight. You know, they just, it's like, getting more outlandish in that realm is like more stupid, almost. Right. So did you find that that was key? Or do people read a lot

Shelley Mordini  26:03  

has a really good saying, I'm gonna have her saying, because I love this saying,

Gwen Herewig  26:08  

Oh, if you hang out in a haunted area long enough, it's like being a bear country you eventually will have an encounter. In there are some buildings in Baraboo that people who haven't ever had an encounter, like, for example, the right building, which is the one and the bottom floor of the village booksmith, isn't it? The name plates on it says right. All of the people, it seems like who have a business in the upper area, have an experience of some sort at