Season 3 begins with a special Halloween interview with some local experts in the Paranormal activities that happen right here in Sauk County. Prepare to have your spine tingled and your teeth chattering as you hear just some of the stories in Shelley Mordini and Gwen Herewig's new book "Haunted Baraboo".
For decades, ghosts have been known to inhabit some of Baraboo's most prized historic locations. Buildings and mansions built by the Ringling brothers at the height of their circus empire now harbor apparitions of unidentified children, horse trainers and other circus workers. Residents throughout the Downtown Baraboo Historic District describe disembodied voices, footsteps and items moving on their own. Even historic homes, new homes and roadways have ghosts--a family awakened to find their dining room table set for a party of ten, a little girl realized that her "friend" wasn't getting any older and a Highway 12 hitchhiker materialized despite the highway being rerouted. Founder of Baraboo Tours Shelley Mordini and tour guide Gwen Herrewig share tales of Baraboo's more mysterious side.
Shelley Mordini is described as adventurous, joyful and generous in the Fabric of our Community mural in downtown Baraboo. Shelley normally works as a high school special education teacher. She is also the owner of Baraboo Tours, a historic and haunted walking tour company in Baraboo, Wisconsin. Shelley enjoys showing people the legacy the Ringling Brothers left behind and talking about the ghost that put the Boo in Baraboo. Since purchasing a rickshaw to give tours, Shelley can often be seen whizzing around Baraboo , off to another adventure. Gwen Herewig has joined her in these adventures by collecting anecdotes from dozens of local residents in their own words (no sensationalism needed). She has also helped Shelley tremendously in just "getting this book done". They make a great team as you will be able to tell from my interview with them.
Introduction 0:04
Welcome to frame of reference informed intelligent conversations about the issues and challenges facing everyone in today's world, in depth interviews with salt counties, leaders and professionals to help you expand and inform your frame of reference, brought to you by the max FM digital network. Now, here's your host, Rauel LaBreche.
Rauel LaBreche 0:25
Welcome to another edition of frame of reference. That's right, this show is called frame of reference if you were looking for something else too bad, because your frame of reference now, and actually, it's probably better that you found frame of reference than whatever you were looking for. Because we got a great show today we're in celebration of the Halloween time of year and I believe in Latino cultures, we talk about cinco, not Cinco de Mayo, what the done what, the night of the dead, right? So we've got I thought about that. And one wondered who I could get to talk about those kinds of things. And I thought of a woman that I had talked with a number of years ago when I was doing mornings at Macfarlanes. And we had a kind of an abbreviated discussion, I would say because it was one of those things where we just kind of got going and airtime meeting what it was we had to just cut the cut the thing so I thought well, it'd be nice to have a longer conversation. So of course, I'm talking about Shelley Moore Dini, or if you've listened to that show, you know that she was really fascinating to talk with. We had lots of really cool stories. But Shelley is here along with a car author of hers, Gwen Herwig, who has together with Shelley, they've written a book called haunted Baraboo. So tell me that's not appropriate for Halloween, right? Haunted bearable, which is part of a series of books called haunted America's every showing
Shelley Mordini 1:47
it is it's correct. It's from the Arcadia press. They have a whole series about haunted America. And they asked us to write a book. So
Rauel LaBreche 1:56
when people come after you and say write a book, what are you going to say?
Shelley Mordini 1:59
Oh, well, I said, No.
Rauel LaBreche 2:02
They twisted your arm.
Shelley Mordini 2:04
And they asked me in August 2019. So those who don't know, I teach school,
Rauel LaBreche 2:10
right?
Shelley Mordini 2:11
So August is like crazy time.
Rauel LaBreche 2:13
Sure.
Shelley Mordini 2:13
You're trying to get school started. I have tours. And you want me to write a book, right? So really, you know, people need to thank Glenn because she's the only reason we have this book.
Rauel LaBreche 2:22
So Gwen came to the rescue, right? That this was the what you were the hero of this story. Is that how this works out
Gwen Herewig 2:28
it was actually the second time that she was contacted. In November, a couple months had gone by. And then he circled back around and asked again, if she would be interested in putting together a proposal for a book and I told her, we should do this.
Rauel LaBreche 2:45
Okay. Well, Gwen Shelley, thank you. Thank you for being on the broadcast on the podcast for sharing with you. I am really excited because just in reading the book, though, I didn't get through the whole thing. I'm being completely out there honest. But it's one of those books, honestly, where I've had some experiences, or at least my family has had experience is with extra. We call them extra paranormal paranormal events. So I'm a believer, I had never had one myself. But I am definitely a believer that there are things that we don't understand that aren't quite quantifiable, and in the ways that we're used to quantifying them. But so my part of my problem was, as I read, I would get these sort of heebie geebie experiences of oh, man, I can see that happening. So So anyways, I'm excited about that part of the whole thing. But thank you. Thank you both for being here. Thank you for taking the time. I'm a little curious question. So how did you know in show we know each other ahead of time? How did that come about?
Gwen Herewig 3:42
I moved to Baraboo in 2013, from Alaska, I grew up in Wisconsin, but I moved to Alaska for almost a decade, and moved back to bear boo and she was the first person I met at the swimming pool. And we've been working together ever since I've been giving historic and haunted downtown walks with caribou tours. And I also substitute teach. So I have I have been spending some time working with her and her crew at the school. Had
Rauel LaBreche 4:12
you had experience with paranormal sorts of things beforehand in Alaska? Or was it just always kind of been you were interested in and thought, yeah, that'd be fun. Let's do this.
Gwen Herewig 4:21
I thought it would be fun. Let's do this. I hit I did have experiences in Alaska, but I never, you know, I'm not a ghost hunter. And I don't, I'm in I haven't like pursued a job or anything like that. But really, I just I was staying home with my son at the time. And it was a perfect opportunity to get out and talk to adults for an hour in the evening. And then go back
Rauel LaBreche 4:48
there and talk about that is right, you know, it's just I want to talk with adults. Yeah, I completely feel your pain. So I worked all the time my kids were growing up and, My wife bless her soul, you know, was homeschooling and all those good things and yeah, so I, I felt that pain at least viscerally before. So well, let's, let's talk a little bit uh, my favorite part of the show honestly, which is my favorite things. And this is one of those deals where it's sort of Rorshachtian experience where you just blurt out the first thing that you think of no F bombs, please, this is a family friendly show. So, but, you know, it will just be kind of off the top of my head. Some of the things I ask a lot of people and other things are things that I just kind of go hmm, you know, why not? We'll ask this. So I'll start off easy and we'll get progressively more and more like,
Gwen Herewig 5:40
scary. Yeah.
Rauel LaBreche 5:43
I don't believe so, we'll save scary for later. Probably. Okay. So okay, let's start out with Shelly favorite color.
Shelley Mordini 5:49
Purple.
Rauel LaBreche 5:50
S he's wearing purple today to folks. So you can't see this. But yeah, I'm very various shades of purple too
Right. So Gwen favorite color?
Shelley Mordini 5:55
might as well go. Yeah. ALL the way.
Gwen Herewig 5:55
Pur ple ?
Rauel LaBreche 5:55
What two purple-lites right in the room?
Okay, well, I gotta tell you I personally look marvelous in purple. So I didn't wear any today, but I do. My wife, in fact, says you look really good in that purple shirt. So I'm like, thank you. I know. So Purple and orange. For some reason. I don't know what that's all about. But I guess there's somewhat opposite ends of the color spectrum ring. So how about favorite bird? Gwen?
Gwen Herewig 6:05
Okay, imagine that.
Robin?
Rauel LaBreche 6:27
Robin. Okay, Wisconsin. There you go. Shelley,
Shelley Mordini 6:30
Eagle,
Rauel LaBreche 6:31
Eagle. Big, big favorite in this area. Right?
Shelley Mordini 6:34
It is and you know, there's even one in our little zoo here in Baraboo
Rauel LaBreche 6:38
Really, I didn't know that.
Shelley Mordini 6:39
And he his name is Walter. Walter the eagle and he got hit by a car. Okay, so he you know he's been rehabilitated and other things and you know, and I don't think he's ever gonna fly. But we love watching him.
Rauel LaBreche 6:52
Is Walter like, like a full bald eagle.
Shelley Mordini 6:55
He's turning to be adult his head's turning white. So yeah, okay, now
Rauel LaBreche 7:00
I you know, eagles are in this area. In particular, those of you listening wherever in the world. Eagles and soccer Eagles we've got, you know, it's a roosting area for eagles. So, you find a lot of Eagle lovers around here doing so how about favorite book, besides the one you guys have written? Okay, let's try to just take that one off the table and try to expand Okay,
Shelley Mordini 7:22
To Kill a Mockingbird To Kill a Mockingbird.
Rauel LaBreche 7:24
Really the original book or the Play?
Shelley Mordini 7:25
No the original book.
Rauel LaBreche 7:26
Okay. Excellent. Good choice.
Gwen Herewig 7:28
The Catcher in the Rye
Rauel LaBreche 7:29
Catcher in the Rye a really good American classic. Good deal. Yeah, I actually met. This sounds like I'm not bragging. This is just something happened. Gregory Peck was at the theater. I managed for a number of years. And he was asked he did kind of a conversational thing. And he said he felt the most important role he ever played was Atticus, in particular Mockingbird because he felt it had the most socyial in, you know, just cultural significance overall. So and then he had like copies of it that he signed for people that you don't want them and all that jazz. So, really fun. I was neat, because my mom was a huge Gregory fan. He was like her idol when she was young, you know, in the 30s and 40s. So when I was able to bring her to this event, she was like, oh, no, no, like a fan girl again. She's like, 80 some years old at that point. Right? So anyhoo Um, how about a favorite thing to do? When you just want to de stress?
Shelley Mordini 8:22
I love to go kayaking on the Baraboo River.
Unknown Speaker 8:24
Really kayaking. Okay, do you go with people or do
Shelley Mordini 8:28
people okay, now that way when you know your boat fills up with water, you have a partner?
Rauel LaBreche 8:32
Or something like that?
Shelley Mordini 8:33
Yeah, yeah.
Rauel LaBreche 8:34
I don't think I could do that. I'd be too much. Okay, here we go. Yeah, so I don't not coordinate. So congratulations on being coordinated to khaki or to go kayaking, khaki kayaking, right. Some days. So how about you Gwen?
Gwen Herewig 8:50
Running?
Rauel LaBreche 8:50
Running? Okay. Are you like a distance runner?
Gwen Herewig 8:53
Not? No, no, I'm good with three miles.
Rauel LaBreche 8:55
Okay,
Gwen Herewig 8:56
but it's a good three miles.
Rauel LaBreche 8:57
Okay. We've been talking with Dr. McAuliffe in the Sauk-Prairie area a lot about COVID. And he uses the analogy of Marathon because he's a marathon writer, runner. And it was interesting, because he when the whole thing started, we would talk about as things went along, what mile Are we at? In the marathon, the marathon and, you know, we got to the end of that first year last summer. And it was like all I think we're getting to the end of the marathon and then it all came apart and it's like, somebody changed the marathon on us. We're in that spectrum of
Gwen Herewig 8:58
We're doing an ultra marathon.
Rauel LaBreche 9:19
Yeah, well, I don't know if you know, I like marathons. There's one called the Barkley and it's just crazy in terms of what the guys have to do that run that race and but you know, we went from being the Boston Marathon to being the Barclay that's what's happened in this whole thing. So how about favorite animal?
Shelley Mordini 9:47
I love a cat.
Rauel LaBreche 9:48
Okay. Okay, any particular kinds of cat
Shelley Mordini 9:51
Well, I love my orange tabby he's his name is Guido lovey Guido,
Rauel LaBreche 9:57
we don't come here to scratch me please.
Shelley Mordini 9:59
Guido Mordini
Rauel LaBreche 10:02
really did that doesn't it? Yeah, we the Mordini the cat, you do not mess with Guido. He make you an offer you cannot refuse interesting cat people, dog people, right? So anyway, Gwen
Gwen Herewig 10:17
mine's also a cat,
Rauel LaBreche 10:18
A Cat. So we have two cat people, two purple people, we could call you the purple cat people
Shelley Mordini 10:24
Absolutely
Rauel LaBreche 10:26
All right. How about your favorite memory from childhood? And this is something I really liked this memory this this particular question because it it makes us usually think of something that made us smile or something we really enjoyed. Or as we get older, we realize that was really formative for me. There's something in your, your past, or your, I find, it's like things that I smell, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, that reminds me of my mom's bread or whatever. They say all the awful olfactory senses, like the strongest for memory. So anything there.
Shelley Mordini 10:59
You know, one of my great memories is of my grandmother, my great grandmother had a raspberry patch. And it wasn't just a raspberry patch. It was like a 30 feet by 40 feet raspberry patch and just be going in there and eating the black or red raspberries. And oh, wow, yes,
Rauel LaBreche 11:19
my wife really liked that we her mom and dad had raspberries outside the house that she grew up. And so all through the 60s, they just sold that house this past summer. And before we like let it transfer, we took resprays out some just so we could you know, all the kids that wanted one could have a bush from there. So we have to get ours planted soon. But you know, so I can relate to that. That's I'm not a big raspberry fan either. But you got to respect your spouse's love of berries don't get in the way of their raspberries.
Shelley Mordini 11:52
Absolutely
Rauel LaBreche 11:53
So how about you Gwen?
Gwen Herewig 11:55
The first thing that came to mind was jumping off the diving board when I was a kid with my friends.
Rauel LaBreche 12:00
Okay. Like did you there was a particular pool you guys would go to
Gwen Herewig 12:04
we would we all lived within a few blocks of the public pool. I grew up in Wonewoc
Rauel LaBreche 12:11
Wonewac . Yeah, really? Okay. So nearby. So was that so every summer that was the thing. I really guess what
Gwen Herewig 12:20
ld we would jump off and do different things. Check nice cannonballs.
Rauel LaBreche 12:26
What I can do now? didn't break your neck or anything or
Gwen Herewig 12:30
No,
Rauel LaBreche 12:30
I was good at the belly flop. I was always particularly talented with that one. So I think because you know, just let it go. Right? Don't Don't worry about form. Just go. So what about a favorite? Is there a favorite music that you like to listen to? There's anything there that you really find that you gravitate towards?
Shelley Mordini 12:51
I love rock music any kind? Yeah. Favorite musical if you want that way. Aba you know?
Rauel LaBreche 12:58
Yeah, is there? So is it like 70s 80s music
Shelley Mordini 13:01
70s 80s Yeah.
Rauel LaBreche 13:02
Okay. I just saw thing with Tommy Shaw, you know, from STYX. He's done this whole series of concerts with the I think it's the Cleveland youth orchestra or the contemporary youth orchestra in Cleveland. And it's really cool because they do these stick songs with this youth, you know, orchestra and choir off time. So it'll do things like oh gosh, what was the one Lorelei? You know "Lorelei, let's live together". So in the have these symphonic or you know, composition. So if you liked the 70s and 80s music, look that up with Tommy Shaw with the CYO, because it'll give you a whole new understanding of 70s and
Shelley Mordini 13:46
I'll do that
Rauel LaBreche 13:46
so cool stuff. So how about you Gwen?
Gwen Herewig 13:50
Techno
Rauel LaBreche 13:50
techno? Really?
Gwen Herewig 13:52
Yeah,
Rauel LaBreche 13:52
techno
Gwen Herewig 13:53
music for the body? Mind.
Rauel LaBreche 13:55
Okay, so you just want to let it kind of take over and is it like it now I forget. Is there a difference between techno and EDM? Because EDM is kind of okay. We have a running joke at Hochunk, done some shows up there and now they'll have EDM oftentimes for New Year's Eve. And it's because it's so loud in that confined space. I was like, Oh my God, I don't know if I can do this anymore. And we're usually so tired we're not going to be doing anything like that. So it's but it I see what you mean. It does really kind of impact your body in a huge way.
Gwen Herewig 14:30
But it depends on what my goal is with listening to music if I'm dancing I like techno if I'm just hanging out at home I'll pick bluegrass
Rauel LaBreche 14:38
right? Okay. Yeah, yeah, bluegrass has got it that way. Was the Steve Martin used to say playing his band which I think if somebody is unemployed you should give them a banjo cuz then come home from work and say, did you find a job? No, no, but ding da da ding ding cuz it make you happier? Right? So cool. Um, anybody? How about a favorite thing to do and and this may be a little bit but if you're really stressed out is there a favorite thing or favorite food or something that you do that kind of helps you to center back and get, you know, really well.
Shelley Mordini 15:13
I love to listen to podcasts when I'm stressed out. I imagine that
Rauel LaBreche 15:18
for you.
So really, you're finding that that
Shelley Mordini 15:22
I do and you know, and I have a sauna I got into so Oh, you know, I was diagnosed with stage four cancer. Oh, and during the writing of this book. Okay. And Infrared Saunas are supposed to help. Okay, so I it's Bluetooth. So I put on a podcast, and I go in there, and I can listen to it. Fantastic.
Rauel LaBreche 15:41
Yeah. A lot of people have found that I think through COVID, especially that, you know, they find kind of the genre that they like, and they tune in. And so hopefully, this will be the same sort of thing. If you haven't listened to frame of reference yet. You'll definitely listen to these episodes, I'm sure
absolutely. So how about you Gwen?
Gwen Herewig 16:00
I like to meditate, right? To try to center myself
Rauel LaBreche 16:04
any particular form of meditation?
Gwen Herewig 16:06
No,
I just, you know, I don't listen to music or anything like that. I just, I was taught to meditate by a Buddhist nun.
Rauel LaBreche 16:19
Okay.
Gwen Herewig 16:19
And I just go for silence or or visualized thinking,
Rauel LaBreche 16:25
or do you do the like, Mantra thing to where you have a particular cadence of things or word soun ds like you try to
Gwen Herewig 16:32
Every once in a while? I usually it depends on on what's going on. And in what way I'm trying to center myself, but mostly, if I'm trying to do it, to get myself to relax before a podcast because I'm nervous
Rauel LaBreche 16:52
Why would you get nervouse before being on a podcast?
Gwen Herewig 16:59
For example, I was actually taught by a shaman how to own the room. Okay. Um, so there's different exercises you can do to, to bring the energy back to yourself instead of being all frazzled?
Rauel LaBreche 17:13
Sure, we do a lot of that my theater training, we do a lot of that sort of thing. And just getting awdare of how your body and your breath and all those things contribute to your sense of wellness, really. And there. There's a lot to that. But people I think, need to be more mindful of just what's going on right now. Why am I in this frame of mind? And oftentimes, it's just, well, you're not breathing very well, you're not really focused very well, you're letting a lot of things just kind of overwhelm you. Which actually is a really good place for us to kind of segue into the topic of your book, right. Let's take a quick break, though. We'll just hear a word from our sponsors and come back and we'll really get into the meat of things. I'm talking with Shelley Mordini and Gwen Herwig that both authors of a brand new book that just came out in 2021. Right, I mean, we just got published and available on Amazon. If you're looking to get something fun to read, part of the Haunted America series. The book is called haunted Barab oo. And we are here in Baraboo, Wisconsin, finding out who put the boo in Baraboo. Right. So we'll take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsors. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere here. 99 Seven Max FM's digital network and frame of reference.
Commercial 18:26
COMMERCIAL BREAK
Rauel LaBreche 18:27
And we're back here on frame of reference on 99. Seven Max FM's digital network my guests today are two co authors, Shelley Mordini and Gwen Herewig are here who have together, written, collaborated and did researched developed a whole series of stories in a book called haunted Baraboo. And seeing as we are near and I'm not sure if this will air right before Halloween, and depending on how long our conversation goes even the week after Halloween, but without you know, let's get some people that can talk about those things that we think about in Halloween, right? And not just like the goofy caricatures, scary things, but the truly unexplainable things, the stuff that kind of goes outside of our normal realm. So So you both put this book together, but you have a background in this kind of thing already. So that's part of why you came to the subject matter.
Shelley Mordini 20:00
Well and I actually started the tours 10 years ago,
Rauel LaBreche 20:04
okay,
Shelley Mordini 20:04
historic walking tours a bareboat.
Rauel LaBreche 20:06
Okay,
Shelley Mordini 20:06
I spent a whole summer giving historic walking tours. Nobody showed up. It's like the best tour I have. Nobody showed up. And the chamber came to me and said, Why don't you do ghost? And I'm like ghost? Are there any ghosts in Baraboo? And they're like, let's help you. And that started it were. Now I offer mainly haunted tours, I do one historic tour, I give it away for free, and people still don't come out for it. So
Rauel LaBreche 20:33
I, you know, I think you and I talked about that the last time we interviewed and I would love to do a history tour, my wife would love to do a history tour. So we will somehow someway take that and I have to feed off right? You know, we're there are two there will be more okay. As a firm believer, but yeah, no history tours are cool. And on the way this is kind of a history tour, though.
Shelley Mordini 20:54
It is really does have a lot of history written into it. You know, we spent a long time you take a story that's maybe a page long, and we'd spend maybe three, four days researching the history to get that sure to flush it out. Some of the stories, you know, definitely had a historical component to it. Others who are just like,
Rauel LaBreche 21:14
yeah, yeah, one some of the ghosts that are talked about as well as some of the people that apparently are part of that history of when that ghost apparition began to appear are based in real life historical figures that are part of the bearable. Yes, right. Yes. Well, right. Yes. Okay. How about You Gwen? And how did you get sucked into this whole thing?
Gwen Herewig 21:38
I have been working with Shelley, I think this is my seventh season working with Shelley doing doing the haunted and historic walks. Okay. And I can also say that the the historic walks are one of my favorites, too. It's a good it's a good walk. Sure. But the Hon are fun. It's as well in people. People like the fun. Yeah. When I, before I came back to bear, but I was doing a lot of writing. I was writing federal regulations for the fishery. Oh, boy, that sounds fun. Yeah, wow, this was way more fun than that was yeah,
Rauel LaBreche 22:15
I can see where this would actually keep you awake at night. So maybe that's a good thing, though. Because if you're too nervous about a story that you're writing, right, you just go do some of the tax and regulations.
Gwen Herewig 22:26
Yeah. So I had I had a background, I also have a degree in environmental education and interpretation. So I've given a lot of tours of all kinds of different subjects, from kids, to glaciers, to train tours. So generally, it was we made a really good team, because I had the writing background. And so when we were filling up the proposal to pitch our book to the to the history press, I had the writing background, and that was really solid. And she had the community connections. Sure, because she is so intertwined in the community in ways that I just couldn't ever dream of being. So it worked out really well. We had a great partnership. Well, yeah,
Rauel LaBreche 23:11
I mean, I found that in the parts of the book that I was able to read to there's a really nice conversational colloquial quality to the the writing itself, it doesn't it's not arduous to read at all, or, you know, highly technical or whatnot, you put it into a framework that I guess I think being almost anecdotal, where it's the storytelling medium, which is, you captured that really well, because it does have that sense of just, this is a ghost story, you know, and I'm going to tell you all the things that happen in a ghost story, which, and it's not like you're purposely trying to be very scary. It's the you just talk about the events, and the events are very freaky, right? So
Gwen Herewig 23:51
well, one of the most important things for me in collecting information, I wanted to talk to the people that this actually happened to I wanted first hand experiences, because ghost stories a lot like phishing stories get a little bit bigger and bigger, each person goes through. So that was our task was to come up with with people who actually had experiences and then try to get those people to talk to us. And and tell us about it. And we interviewed over 45 people for the book, and the book is, is recounting their stories.
Rauel LaBreche 24:29
And I thought I remember maybe it was when Mike ganger and I were talking about things that he had noted that one of the things that was interesting and tended to validate verify the stories was that there were multiple people that had the same story to tell having been occupants of certain homes or whatnot. That's like, any contact with one another and yet the story details stayed the same. Right. And that
Shelley Mordini 24:52
was my favorite part of the whole book is that we had interviewed this person, and he told us a story and he gave us the location of the house like the two crossroads. And then another lady came in and gave us a story, but she gave the actual address. And then we went, Oh my gosh, you know, he lived there in the 60s and 70s. And she lived there in the 80s. And it was, that was the intriguing part for me is like, wow, now, that's a validation that doubled up on the same address.
Rauel LaBreche 25:21
So did you find that people were like wanting to tell? Like, were they eager to tell the stories? Or were they reluctant? Because, I mean, there used to be, I think more of a, I guess a stigma of you don't talk about those things that people will think you're crazy. Right? And you know, you're just making it up or unlike a fish story, which is like everybody's got a fish story, right? And especially fishermen like to outdo one another. I don't know of anyone wanting to outdo another person with their ghost story, you know, oh, no, I had a huge fight. You know, they just, it's like, getting more outlandish in that realm is like more stupid, almost. Right. So did you find that that was key? Or do people read a lot
Shelley Mordini 26:03
has a really good saying, I'm gonna have her saying, because I love this saying,
Gwen Herewig 26:08
Oh, if you hang out in a haunted area long enough, it's like being a bear country you eventually will have an encounter. In there are some buildings in Baraboo that people who haven't ever had an encounter, like, for example, the right building, which is the one and the bottom floor of the village booksmith, isn't it? The name plates on it says right. All of the people, it seems like who have a business in the upper area, have an experience of some sort at some point.
Rauel LaBreche 26:41
So let's use that as a launching point. Okay, so the Wright building, would you say that that's a particularly active place then for the ghosts that inhabit there? In more than one ghost? Is it a particularly just one that
Shelley Mordini 26:54
so little history on the building? Because you know, that's what I like to bring that I'm
Rauel LaBreche 26:59
we're here we're going on that right now
Shelley Mordini 27:00
We're gonna leave right now.
Rauel LaBreche 27:02
I'm not interested in the history of just take it away. So I want to, because there is history right
Shelley Mordini 27:08
there is. So this built in 1872, where that building was actually where the Wisconsin Hotel The Western hotel was. And the Western hotel was the fanciest hotel we had here and bearable. Three floors, everything. Mary Todd Lincoln stayed there really for two weeks, stayed out of the lake, and then an 1878 it burned down most of bearable burned down wooden structures. gaslighting stir happens all the time. Sure. So in comes Elizabeth, right and builds this building. And the first people she rented to upstairs were the Ringling Brothers. So that's where their first costume shops and offices were. Okay, so we had a psychic that came on and gave us some of this reading for you know, give us some information. And she's like, was in my office, which is up there, which is farther away from this one particular area. And she's like, we need to go down here. And she's like, this is filled with people right here waiting to get fitted for their costumes inside the costume shop. So there's multiple people, I would say, and then people from the hotel still there, because that building was built on the moorings of the old western Hotel.
Rauel LaBreche 28:17
Okay, so that seems interesting, because, you know, we I think we have a tendency to think at least I do think of ghosts and ghost stories as being related to the death of someone, you know, that something happened in the process of their death or some horrible thing has the course of their life. Yeah, that there's an that that angst, if you are that the energy of those events is such that it will cause a trapping of sorts or, you know, a hesitancy to leave perhaps. So I think of that and think of well, but I think a situation like that where they were just waiting for costuming, you know, so is that just the excitement, energy that gets kind of trapped there is that the, you know, anticipation of, you know, I want this to look just so, you know, you wonder, don't you a bit about what would cause that
Shelley Mordini 29:03
what causes them to just still hang out?
Rauel LaBreche 29:04
Yeah, yeah. What what is it? What's the nexus there that makes that kind of not necessarily trapped, but want to remain in that place?
Shelley Mordini 29:13
And you know, when we talk about Baraboo, what we've said, we always feel like the magic is still here, like, we expect to go around a corner and you're going to see an elephant trainer step out of the walls or, or do something like that
Rauel LaBreche 29:26
was wild in general, when you think about the types of personalities that are drawn to them. They tend to be pretty, pretty unique individuals from the get go, right? And I think you know, if I remember right, history was circuses. A lot of the people that are in circuses are pretty, I don't want to say downtrodden, but are kind of excluded from normal life. And there are those that are really, you know, developed special athletic skills like trapeze artist, but then you think of like the beard Did woman and you know the Tiny Tim kinds of, you know, attractions if you will. So they have to take, you know what would be considered a disability and becoming a, you know an ability to become comfortable with that, I think so.
Gwen Herewig 30:13
Well, to even take that a step further in a place like the Al Ringling mansion, it appears to be full of ghosts that didn't actually live there. And they see apparitions of little kids. Women in dresses, l Ringling himself, which makes sense, they have seen his apparition but some of the other ones just don't quite line up. They don't quite line up at the history of the building. And they don't know who they are
Rauel LaBreche 30:43
any explanation of why that might be. Is there? Are there theories of that how that works? Is there a mechanics to it? Or if you will, or our beliefs, I guess, theories, hypotheses. So
Gwen Herewig 30:59
you know, one of the things that we've talked about and that we find is very interesting is that we always thought a ghost stays in this house. So like, here, we're at this. We're at the old funeral home. So all the ghosts are here, right. But in our stories, we found that you know, Al ringland, at the ringley Mansion, he's been seen at the Al Ringling theater like they leave the building. Sure. I don't miss. Yeah. But you know, I don't know why we always thought they would just stay in the one spot where they're supposed to be
Rauel LaBreche 31:30
sure. What's the the one a movie with? Ricky Jervis, where he's ghost town or go. I forget where he he has a near death experience where he actually dies on the operating table. When he comes back, he can see ghosts, and they're all over the place. And there's people in these various situations where they didn't get something resolved. And, and he can see them and they're the ghosts are all freaking out that he can see them. And he's freaking out. But who are these people wire, you know, and they're all coming, please go to my daughter and tell her look under the mat for the letter and you know, all that stuff. So you wonder if there isn't, you know, I always watched that movie thought it's very funny. And very well done, very pointed. But often I think well, maybe that's actually part of what's going on. And we just don't have any people tuned in enough to be able to figure that out and help. Or do whatever the ghosts are looking for. Right now. It's just with that.
Gwen Herewig 32:22
Well, if I could circle back to your comment asking about people how open people were to discuss ghosts, bear Boo is a little unusual, because people are really excited about ghosts. And they speak openly about it. Some people contacted us that had businesses or that it had an experience, because they had heard that we were writing a book and they wanted us to know, other people, you know, weren't necessarily so open about it. Some people, if you read the book, you'll see that we changed names. So they were okay with us telling the story, but they didn't want it to be traced back to them. And other people, we they hesitated to give us permission to use the story. And so we kept those stories out. Okay.
Rauel LaBreche 33:12
So there. So there's other content there that at some point might have a volume to that you
Gwen Herewig 33:18
podcast. Okay, there
Rauel LaBreche 33:19
you go. We're on to something, I can already see Episode Two in the making, just to talk about those things that aren't in the book. So did we. So there is seems to be a couple of different personality things going on there. And people that want to share the information are almost like evangelists of ghost sightings and ghost experiences, which I think my mom is actually was kind of in that category. Because mom had a couple of experiences over the course of her life, that she was readily willing to tell people and didn't care. People thought she was crazy or whatever. She she knew they were real. She was really committed to think whatever you want. I know what happened kind of attitude, right? I think other people, they have a hard time kind of coming to grips with that, perhaps.
Gwen Herewig 34:06
And that's we even interviewed people that didn't believe in ghosts, but they have no other explanation for what happened. And other people, the experience changed their mind about ghosts. And I could tell while we were interviewing them, that they were still trying to make sense of it. Every everybody seemed to tell the story in the same way that they were there shaking their head and striking in sake. You know, I was thinking all of these things. I just I don't know what, I don't know.
Rauel LaBreche 34:36
Right? One, isn't that kind of fundamental to this whole issue. We can't explain it. No. I mean, in that, that is traditionally that I think of the whole theory of biases and our construct of how our biases work. And that idea of cognitive dissonance, you know, where you're trying to fit something that you're just finding out about into a peg hole that you've got all your peg holes, right? And it's just like, This thing doesn't fit in anyone pay goals? And it's just that that state of cognitive dissonance is so difficult people don't it's uncomfortable. We don't like it. Right? And you know, isn't it partly kind of getting used to the cognitive dissonance and saying, I just can't know this? For sure. You know, right.
Shelley Mordini 35:22
In one of the questions we asked, everyone we interviewed was, what was your first ghostly experience? Our assumption was they had one previously, and then that would make you open to another one that did not was fit. You know, sometimes this was their first ghostly experience. Other people had them when they were younger or different. It's we always asked that question, just because we were trying to see if there's a pattern. And here's the pattern, there isn't one.
Rauel LaBreche 35:47
So did you so did you have a set series of questions that you like an interview format that you were going through it when you talk with people?
Shelley Mordini 35:55
Kind of?
Gwen Herewig 35:57
Yeah, we would start out and most, mostly, I wanted to know about them. First, I wanted, I wanted to get the story. I wanted to get their story to help write, write it in the book. And so we first asked about them how they came to be in the spot that they were in. And then when we got to the point of asking about the experience that they had, I we would try to let them talk if we if we could, because we didn't want to bombard them with questions and cut them off and write down questions to follow up on afterward. Okay,
Rauel LaBreche 36:38
so are we recording those things so that you didn't have to worry about
Gwen Herewig 36:41
I recorded all of them? Yes. And then when it came time to write, basically, I played back the recording. And so a lot of the stories are actually in, in their mind frame in there.
Rauel LaBreche 36:55
So that would explain the anecdotal quality of it. And really, is people just telling the story?
Gwen Herewig 37:00
Yeah. The history press asked that we wrote it in third, that we write it in third person. So you know, I always named the people and if I couldn't name them, I needed to sure make up a name for them. But
Rauel LaBreche 37:13
Guido Mordini
Shelley Mordini 37:14
Guido Mardini.
Rauel LaBreche 37:15
more deeply the
Shelley Mordini 37:16
He'd be the one right.
Rauel LaBreche 37:17
It's a very prominent role in many of the stories, I'm sure. So what's your cat's name? Gwen?
Gwen Herewig 37:22
Ferguson
Rauel LaBreche 37:23
Ferguson. Okay. So Guido and Ferguson probably consulted on a number of things and said, Yeah, I don't like the way they're handling my interview. I want to get some other stuff in here. So like a cat would, right? Yes. Folks, My guests today are Gwen Herrewig. And Shelley Mordini. And we're talking about a book that they have written together, called haunted Baraboo. I think we're gonna take a quick break and wrap up this episode and come back and get into more meat of things. So if, if you're not scared enough yet, or if you're not intrigued enough yet, I would urge you to tune in again and hear what's going on with the rest of the story. Because there's, there's a lot of specific stories that we can talk about too, and kind of use that to unravel this experience of something that's other worldly, not really otherworldly. But at least other dimensionally it would seem some kind of there's a difference there that it's not like you know, hey clam, how are you doing is that although some cases I guess they do have kind of conversational elements, too, don't they? But we'll be right back your closing comments for this week's show and come back and talk more about wanted Baraboo. And who put the blue in Baraboo. your frame of reference 97 Max FM's digital network
Commercial 39:07
Commercial Break
Rauel LaBreche 39:11
And thus ends our first season three episode of frame of reference. I hope you can appreciate the spirit of this adventure, pun intended. Ghost Stories seem to get lumped in with demonic activity by many folks. And I can assure you that's not my intent. I personally believe that the idea of interacting with those that have gone before us shows up in Christianity just like it does in Hamlet and other literature. So it seems to me like we're meant to talk about it. I looked up the word ghost in the dictionary. Yep, still doing that. And it's defined as an apparition of a dead person, which is believed to appear or become manifest to the living typically as a nebulous image. Well Shelley and Gwen have plenty of those examples in their book. But there's also the voices in the messages that they convey the emotional content and the spiritual sensitivity. How do we explain all of that? Therein lies the rub. We really can't, because the x blood nations cannot be agreed upon, only argued about or ignored and dismissed. Our frame of reference either allows for the unknown, or doesn't, at least, until something shocks us out of our cocoon. What was that? Just kidding. Tune in next week for part two of our exploration of haunted Baraboo and happy Halloween. Oh, and don't forget if you've got suggestions or questions, as always, visit us at www for soc.com Stay well
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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